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@danfireman
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Old Funnelweb mission didn't really demonstrate the utility of the new Funnelweb.

I've completely remade the mission so it does.
Primarily by exploiting the Funnelweb+Ultimatum combo against heavy units.

May be slightly too easy.

@danfireman
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http://zero-k.info/Forum/Post/202390#202390
ltmauve likes it :)

@Aquanim
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Aquanim commented May 31, 2019

A few comments:

  • The player's starting Funnelweb has low shield strength, which is a nuisance given the advice to "push out with your starting army". shieldFactor = 1 on the Funnelweb will change this.
  • A starting Owl would also make the initial push a bit easier to achieve without playing then restarting to find out where everything is.
  • A starting Caretaker next to the Strider Hub would make it easier to avoid flooding at the start.
  • I found the mission kind of challenging on Normal; it is a late mission and I attempted it without some unlocks that would have been handy (terraform, ultimatum, etc.) but perhaps the AI should not have a starting Merlin on non-hard/brutal difficulty.
  • A few allied defences around the edges of the map (especially the northern side) would prevent annoying raider runarounds which the human player is out of position to deal with.
  • The enemy AI should probably have an antinuke somewhere. The player is quite likely to have unlocked Nuke in the previous mission.

The general idea seems like it works fairly well.

@danfireman
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danfireman commented May 31, 2019

I hadn't realized I was playing with the v1.1 Funnelweb. That has a faster regen rate meaning you can push almost immediately as your shields will be close to full by the time you reach the enemy.

I've implemented your feedback (though the Merlin will be placed on Normal and above) and have given it another test run (still seems slightly too easy).

@Aquanim
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Aquanim commented Jun 15, 2019

In other missions Artefacts are typically used as invincible objectives to bring one's Commander to, so you might want to use a different Planetwars building for consistency.

Otherwise looks good now.

@GoogleFrog
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I like the overall design. Pushing out from a corner in a porced battle works well for Funnelweb.

  • The hints should stress that Funnelweb shields do not repair under fire and do not link. This is important because the shields run counter to the way other shields have worked until this point.
  • I can't think of any missions where the goal is to destroy a planetwars structure, so it seems inconsistent to do so here. I think you're always either walking to them or protecting them. The objective could simply be to destroy all the opponents factories. Perhaps it could be to destroy two Singularity Reactors.
  • If performance becomes a problem then reducing the number of duplicate AIs may be required. This would change the rest of the mission though as the enemy forces would effectively become more coordinated.
  • People don't necessarily have Ultimatum in this mission and it would be weird if this mission was also focused around Ultimatum. Just from the network I would give you a 50% chance that this mission is played with Ultimatum. However, they will have a high DPS unit like Scallop or Mace which works reasonably well under a Funnelweb shield. Don't give people the impression that they need to unlock Ultimatum to do this mission.
  • There is very little difference between the difficulty levels, apart from the enemy AI. Everything except Brutal has the same unlocks and start units. Perhaps artillery or some of the turrets could be removed for Easy or Medium.
  • Be sure to add the map to https://github.com/ZeroK-RTS/Zero-K-Infrastructure/blob/master/Autoregistrator/Resources/campaignMaps.txt so that it is downloaded in the steam package.

@Aquanim
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Aquanim commented Jun 17, 2019

I can't think of any missions where the goal is to destroy a planetwars structure, so it seems inconsistent to do so here. I think you're always either walking to them or protecting them. The objective could simply be to destroy all the opponents factories. Perhaps it could be to destroy two Singularity Reactors.

I thought there were a few, perhaps I was wrong. I know there is at least one other mission where the objective is to destroy the defences surrounding Planetwars structure(s) (the new tankfac mission on planet 41), so this mission could do that instead. Chasing down all the factories with Funnelwebs seems like a pain, especially given the optional time limit objective. Singus sound like they would liable to blow up the Funnelwebs which is a bit unfun.

Probably the easiest way to do this is to have the objective defended by Sunlances since these will appear nowhere else in the mission. If you go about it this way, make the PW building invulnerable and choose a pretty solid looking one (since I expect at least some players will nuke the objective).

People don't necessarily have Ultimatum in this mission and it would be weird if this mission was also focused around Ultimatum. Just from the network I would give you a 50% chance that this mission is played with Ultimatum. However, they will have a high DPS unit like Scallop or Mace which works reasonably well under a Funnelweb shield. Don't give people the impression that they need to unlock Ultimatum to do this mission.

I didn't have Ultimatum and mostly used Recluse. Even with a Funnelweb shield using Mace against heavy defences on top of hills is... unappealing.

@GoogleFrog
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My issue was that a tip at the start talks about Ultimatum. Perhaps it could tell people about the advanced area guard commands that can be used to keep units at a certain position relative to the funnelweb.

Improved descriptions
Now requires destruction of turrets protecting artefacts
Increased difficulty scaling
@danfireman
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  • Hints updated to mention lack of regen and linking.
  • Made it so that the mission objective is to destroy the Sunlances protecting the Artefacts.
  • No action (haven't heard of performance issues)
  • Now emphasizing short ranged, high damage units with Ultimatum as an example
  • Currently a Merlin is missing on Easy. New difficulty scaling:
    • Easy - Central enemy AI missing: 3 fusions (so the centre AI only has an advanced geo for energy), the Cerburus (the final centre attack now easier), the Cyclops (so the initial attack won't entirely breach defences) and the Merlin (so no long ranged destruction). Top enemy AI gets no amph (so no back-door attack on ally). Bottom AI loses a fusion. Friendly middle AI gains another Desolator and a Lucifer defending his base.
    • Medium - No change.
    • Hard - Centre AI enemy can build Merlins (sunken caretaker+armor porcing required to let Funnelweb safely recharge) and Widows (will need patrolling to be sure the Funnelweb isn't sniped).
    • Brutal - Central AI enemy can also build Likhos and Dantes. Top friendly AI gets only 1 Stinger on base defence rather than 2.
  • This would require a separate pull request on my part. Could you add Conquest_of_Paradise_v1 to the list when you merge?

@danfireman
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Having watched a dozen more Funnelweb replays, I think maybe some hint text about metal reserves and Guarding may be needed...

Aquanim added a commit to Aquanim/Zero-K-Infrastructure that referenced this pull request Jun 30, 2019
@Aquanim
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Aquanim commented Jun 30, 2019

Seems OK to me now. The "lose no Funnelwebs" objective carries some risk of discouraging the use of Funnelwebs but I think it's probably fine in this instance.

@danfireman
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I've updated the hint text.

Ready for merging I think.

@GoogleFrog GoogleFrog merged commit 0c7a3e1 into ZeroK-RTS:master Jul 8, 2019
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3 participants