Change Write-Verbose to Write-Debug to reduce non-relevant DSC output

[dan-hughes]

Bit of a follow on from the discussions in WSManDsc, DscResource.Base and SqlServerDsc.

Any resource that uses DscResource.Base has functions from this module which uses Write-Verbose. Example is Compare-ResourcePropertyState which uses Write-Verbose, from class-based resources this is not required as the community base class outputs which parameters are not in the desired state.

If the aim is to keep verbose output limited, it may be good to understand and document the rules for library functions on when Verbose level or Debug level statements should be used.

[johlju]

Agree. Also, some functions in this module is used in public commands in other modules where maybe it might be expected to have verbose output from some commands 🤔 Commands like Compare-ResourcePropertyState are probably not used in other public commands so that is probably safe to switch to Write-Debug, but others might not be.

I wonder if an option would be to have a private function Write-TraceMessage that replaces Write-Verbose and Write-Debug in this modules commands. Write-TraceMessage will use either verbose or debug message depending on a boolean script variable, e.g. $script:verboseOutput, that is set using Disable-VerboseOutput and Enable-VerboseOutput. 🤔

An other alternativ is, if it is possible, to turn off verbose using $VerbosePreference and or $DebugPreference in the correct scope inside the module using a public Disable-* and Enable-* commands 🤔

[johlju]

The commands using Write-Verbose now.

• Find-Certificate
• Test-ModuleExist
• Test-IsNanoServer
• Get-LocalizedDataForInvariantCulture
• Compare-DscParameterState
• Compare-ResourcePropertyState

I can't see that any of these need to use Write-Verbose and probably can be safely switched to Write-Debug. Then maybe add a text to CONTRIBUTING.md to be wary when Write-Verbose is to be used.

[dan-hughes]

Something else I found out yesterday when converting AdcsAuthorityInformationAccess to a class, when using commands from other modules in this case ADCSAdministration, -Verbose set on Start-DscConfiguration then causes these commands to output their Verbose output.

Not sure what the solution is, or where it needs to be controlled but the functionality would be need to be uniform.

e.g. in ActiveDirectoryCSDsc, Restart-ServiceIfExists calls Get-Service and Restart-Service which when -Verbose is supplied on Start-DscConfiguration, the *Service commands provide Verbose output.
I had to supress it via a -Verbose:$false on Restart-ServiceIfExists.

[dan-hughes]

I wonder if this can be contained in DscResource.Base and basically enable Verbose output only when the Debug switch is provided? e.g. Debug on Start-DscConfiguration enables both Verbose and Debug output?

[johlju]

I had to supress it via a -Verbose:$false on Restart-ServiceIfExists.

I think that is the only way. Because normally they should return verbose output in that case. So either we remove our own verbose statement since the commands return verbose output, or we provide our own a disable per command basis as you did. I have disabled the same way some times.

[johlju]

I wonder if this can be contained in DscResource.Base and basically enable Verbose output only when the Debug switch is provided? e.g. Debug on Start-DscConfiguration enables both Verbose and Debug output?

Then we could just have debug messages and no verbose output?

I think it is more important to minimize verbose output and have more debug output when -Debug is provided.
The main issue is that we have used Write-Verbose as debug messages to track code path flow instead of using debug messages which resulting in LCM creating verbose logs (which it apparently does regardless of using -Verbose?). So the goal should just be minimize verbose output to essentials. 🤔

[dan-hughes]

I wonder if this can be contained in DscResource.Base and basically enable Verbose output only when the Debug switch is provided? e.g. Debug on Start-DscConfiguration enables both Verbose and Debug output?

Then we could just have debug messages and no verbose output?

I think it is more important to minimize verbose output and have more debug output when -Debug is provided. The main issue is that we have used Write-Verbose as debug messages to track code path flow instead of using debug messages which resulting in LCM creating verbose logs (which it apparently does regardless of using -Verbose?). So the goal should just be minimize verbose output to essentials. 🤔

For Write-Verbose statements in this module yes, all or nearly all should be changed to Write-Debug.

It's then dealing with the Get-Service example.

[johlju]

It's then dealing with the Get-Service example.

I think disable using -Verbose:$false per case (in the resources) is the way to go, if those verbose messages are not required or desired. I don't think we should disable it by default even if we can. 🤔

[dan-hughes]

It feels like a try it and see sort of thing.

Ideally if Verbose could be suppressed and then when Debug is enabled enable both Verbose and Debug. I think that is the functionality trying to be achieved here.

[johlju]

If we disable verbose generically in that way, if I I’m getting what you mean, then we change what a user would expect when they add -Verbose, and then output verbose messages when user adds -Debug is even more strange 🤔

We need it to work when these commands are used for public commands and DSC resources.

[dan-hughes]

It sounds bonkers. That's why I'm not a fan of my own idea!

[johlju]

@dan-hughes is there more we should do for this issue?