Adds partial Command integration for Non-Humans #11505
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Allows Non-Humans to enroll in Command positions, dependent on Species. Applies to both roundstart and latejoin.
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Hm yes code, very good code, I have never seen this code before so this is very impartial review mmmm code
Love you too, Alex, and once more thank you for all your help setting up this spaghetti |
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mutant heads bad. why have asimov if this is a thing |
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not sure head of security would be something nanotrasen would entrust to a nonhuman. Also, polysmorphs for sure would not be a good fit for head of security since they can't ever wear shoes, which means you'd be able to defeat the HoS with just a glass shard. Otherwise, okay I guess? |
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I have been waiting for this for so long. Not what I originally suggested with whitelisted non-human heads but hey I'll take it. |
Why have roundstart lawsets that aren't Asimov if Human heads are a thing? There's situations where the AI isn't inherently beholden to those in Command even if they are all Humans, like Reporter, and there's ingame solutions to those situations such as a law reset or just going along with the lawset that rolled. This issue was raised in development discussion, and ultimately it can be solved without needing to remove Asimov or anything drastic like that. |
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wtf the fuck how will i be racist now |
Head of Security is just another leader of the station, albeit one with closer ties to space law than the rest, but nothing like the authority of Captain or HoP - anyone can be in a psueo-military organization and rise through the ranks, same as the Security forces, and Warden which is sort of HoS-lite is already open enrollment. Polys were given the slot because in their lore they're noted as being anything from cold and calculating to nearly feral with their rage, which seems a suitable fit for the department both in charge of law and order and batoning individuals into pulp. The shoes conundrum is an entirely valid point, though that's more a limitation of our game mechanics than with this PR since nobody ever bothered to make digitigrade-friendly shoes - that might be something for me to look into as another addendum project to this, and I appreciate you bringing it up. EDIT: Seeing as there's been a number of people bringing up HoS specifically as a point of contention, I'll be looking into action to take on the matter. Potentially a Quick-Fire vote about that topic specifically if people aren't too one-sided opposed to the PR on the whole. |
Fear not, you can still be racist to your hearts' desire! Simply because Non-Humans are allowed in jobs doesn't mean anyone has to respect them in that job. Just know that sometimes the targets of your racism will be higher ranked than you (though when has that ever stopped greytide speciesism?) |
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If anything, its more fuel for racism. Your boss is a fucking WHAT? WHY IS MY BOSS A FART SMELLING RAT EATING LIZARD?!? |
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Signing off for the night, lovelies. If there's more comments overnight, I'll respond to them as I can tomorrow! |
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really though don't agree with the pr cause it fucks with the already bad lore by putting 'oppressed races' in places of power and makes them less unique to humans in that aspect |
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yes I agree with lazenn we don't need nonhuman heads just make a human character like it's always been, non human heads is a staple of tg codebases. |
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Well have fun with a dying server. That you killed. Dissapointment it is being ruined. When things get worse, just know i was right Isn't NT all about exploiting the non-humans? Seems weird lore wise to change it. If this goes through please port this too |
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GALAXY BRAIN IDEA: SECONDARY IDEA I THOUGHT OF LATER: |
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This is bad on so many levels...
Round diversity in what sense? It's not adding new gamemodes or new ways to play the game. Or do you mean it as there will be more non-humans? If so how is that desirable? It pretty much goes against the lore of NT being a human company
What RP opportunities does having non-human heads of staff create? If anything it breaks the setting and downplays the social differences between humans and non humans. Lore wise Humans are very xenophobic and NT is a human company, with majority human employees. Why exactly would they hire non-humans in Command possitions? Not only would they be reluctant to do it out of bigotry but it makes no practical sense. Humans are unlikely to follow the lead of someone who is completly alien to them, even more so if they consider said alien to be inferior to them. That's not to mention the major biological differences between the various species, that may make them.
Could be interesting on TG or Bee but I don't think it's wise to encourage people to break the Yogstation server rules...
What? How is diversity desirable? How is replacing the command staff with races that die easier making it more powerful? I fail to see why sacrificing the lore, the setting, the point of non-humans and making command more vulnerable in the name of ''diversity'' is a good idea |
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Main reasons nonhumans would be bad command: lizards can’t wear shoes, Xenos can’t wear shoes, preternis get emp’d one time, easy head access granted it's just CE, but that's still easy bridge access, Xenos and pod people take more fire damage, plasmamen take more damage, Asimov would have to be reworked. Too much of a hassle to please a tiny bit of the community in my opinion. |
There are already instances of Non-Humans being promoted in-round to Command positions and that fucks with the bad lore but people still do it anyway. Yogstation lore is amorphous and able to be changed, especially considering that contributions to it are at an all time low. But you are welcome to have your stance and downvote the PR if you don't like it. |
If it would make people happier, I'd consider porting this. Again, this PR is just a baseline and can have modular additions or detractions as needed. One thing I'm looking into more seriously now is dusting off my old project for digitigrade footwraps, so things are malleable at this stage. |
I like this compromise
I feel like HOS should be significantly more restricted for non-humans, or even banned for nonhumans entirely. It doesn't make much sense - especially when one of the allowed species is basically a slightly more evolved antag in appearance and gameplay, and another one can end up being unable to wear regular jumpsuits entirely.
If you allowed preternis to be CMO i would've cut you on the spot. Thank you
nothings stopping you
lore team is dead - even if we werent, lore is able to be changed.
lore can be changed if it conflicts with the game
thats a pretty damn long time
swear to god if people keep saying "nanotrasen/COO xenophobic tho!!!!!!!!" im going to go into every single fucking wiki page and remove all instances of that. lore can CHANGE you nerds
racism ingame in general is rather low and even then its not super bad, ive never in my hundreds of hours seen someone get denied access or other rights "because you are a [species]"
just because races have penalties doesnt mean theyre objectively bad in every way. they can be bad for CERTAIN ROLES like preternis security or moth engineer, but thats because they take TRADEOFFS to be the way they are. preternis get turbofucked by EMP damage but can heal incredibly easily, allowing them to take minor (or even near-fatal) damage and get away like its nothing. people can play around the weaknesses of their species. people ALREADY play around the weaknesses of their species even.
this completely - i don't know how this is any different from a lizard getting HOS roundstart at the id console. |
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I am okay with all of these changes except for allowing head of security to be non human. IDK why people insist on being racist in a video game. |
Right, this is the big one so far and I'm not going to quote it all because that's a lot of text.
Yes, diversity in the sense of having a more visibility multi-species crew. It's "desirable" in that it can represent a more nuanced cross section of NT's hiring practices reflected in-round. NT may not be egalitarian, but they're focused on using the cheapest most readily available labor they can find, usually Non-Humans, and they're not a stupid company, as they want to protect Humanity and themselves. If they can put a Preternis, a radiation-immune robot, in charge of their Engineering department to avoid risking valuable Human resources there when things go wrong, while at the same time making that disgusting Non-Human a much larger target to be shot and killed in a Syndicate attack instead of a valuable Human, and while still paying the Preternis a meager paycheck for them to work even harder and more efficiently than a Human, it seems like good business sense. It's a cut corner in some regards and Human risk mitigation in others, mostly motivated by greed, not a well-intentioned promotion.
As I've said, people already hate Non-Humans for a number of reasons, especially as this thread has shown. If they go to straight outright attacking their Non-Human head for no reason, that's a rule violation and can be handled accordingly. But if they want to be irritating and obstinate and racist, that should all fall under allowed IC choices with repercussions (borderline dick behavior in some cases, but if you're going to sign up as a Non-Human, you should know to expect this stuff). And if you're a Human and you don't listen to your Podperson RD? Don't be surprised when they threaten to demote you. Complain to someone higher in the Chain of Command if you don't like it. There's dynamic and valid ways for these situations to play out and this PR in no way encourages people to be break server rules.
As Athena said before I could post this reply, Non-Human species have both strengths and weaknesses - this PR attempted to work some of these balances into the assignments made. Queuing in as a Non-Human means accepting that your statlines are going to be different than the generic Chad Human, and players will have to adapt and utilize the tools at their disposal to better do their jobs. There's a variety of unique powers that each species brings to the table (pret radation immunity + darkvision + self-repair, pod light self-healing, Lizard firebreath, Ethereal burning punches and shock bleeds, etc) which can be utilized in different manners for different roles by creative thinking and problem solving from the player side of things - it's not so simply "Non-Human races die faster", as that's conditional at the core. |
Shoes have been brought up numerous times, and again, seeing as it is such a concern I will see what can be done about PR-ing in something about that; probably footwraps of various colors / designation pending what I can dig up or design. The Preternis thing is a bit more nuanced, as it's a flaw you have to be aware of and accept when you choose the race - Humans are a baseline, they're functional at 100% power in all regards, and picking a Non-Human head inherently alters the statline you operate at; Preternis gain a bunch of other powers to make up for their weaknesses, so it falls to the players to most effectively manage themselves and utilize their strengths and weaknesses. The above also applies to the next few points, as I tried to balance roles that have damage vulnerability away from places where that vulnerability would be a huge hinderance - I.E. no pods as HoS since they're very weak and unrobust without a lightbulb to suck on. I disagree that Asimov would need reworking, however. There are cases where roundstart AIs can have a lawset which doesn't inherently make them listen even when it's an all Human Command crew, and those situations can be resolved through in-game means just the same as this situation would. |
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every single race except lizard makes you less robust in general combat by either giving you a weakness to brute/burn or by giving you a pretty abusable weakness, or sometimes both. Like, moths are easy to flash, pods and polys are weak to burn damage, plasmamen weak to burn and brute damage, and so on so forth. So while this wouldn't matter much for most heads, HoS is expected to participate in a lot of combat, so their ability to do their job would be heavily hindered. |
Per lengthy consultation with other developers, I have decided to move Ethereals and Polysmorphs out of the HoS qualification into RD/CE respectively. Main documentation to be adjusted accordingly, and fuller explanatory comment to be posted to thread shortly.
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@Marmio64 This change isn't made lightly, as I spun in place with my decision-making for days before settling on a result. Ultimately, having a Head of Security with inbuilt vulnerability to one of the ubiquitous damage types (brute / burn) is too large of a change to process to game balance, as of now. Security and Antagonist interactions are some of the foundations of balancing gamemodes and the game itself, so while nobody would be forced to play as a Polysmorph or Ethereal HoS should the options exist, as of now it's better to take a preventative stance and avoid this situation from arising in the first place. I hope this will help assuage some of the tensions that people have had regarding this PR, and that it will shape the PR into an ultimately better and more accepted format. |
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Allows Non-Humans to enroll in specific Command positions, dependent on species, with heavy consideration given to lore and code-based strengths and weaknesses - developed with input and approval from the Yogstation Council. Applies to both roundstart and latejoin. Will be in testmerge format initially to allow for community feedback and bug hunting.
General Documentation
Intent of your Pull Request
To add carefully limited Command integration for non-Human species; thereby increasing round diversity, RP opportunities, and opening the path for more individuals to play as Head roles without being autobalanced to Human.
NOTE: Non-Humans are still blacklisted from direct Captaincy and being Head of Personnel at roundstart or by latejoin.
Invalid Non-Human / Command position combinations will still default to Human (I.E. Plasmaman Head of Security -> Human Head of Security).
Permitted Command position / Non-Human species combinations are as follows:
Head of Security: Lizards
Chief Engineer: Plasmamen, Moths, Ethereals, Preternis, Polysmorphs
Research Director: Pods, Plasmamen, Ethereals, Preternis, Polysmorphs
Chief Medical Officer: Lizards, Pods, Moths
Why is this change good for the game?
This PR creates a small paradigm shift for Yogs, breaking the stale mold of seeing only Humans in Command roles in rounds at start or through latejoin. It also serves to create interesting power dynamics for RP situations, as there are players who already look down on Non-Humans, and said Non-Human being in a departmental head position can create interesting tension and conflict resolution. Additionally, a Command team of multiple Non-Humans paired with Humans also represents a more diverse and thereby more powerful workforce, able to tap into differing areas of strengths.
Wiki Documentation
What will the Wiki do to adjust for this change?
TODO: Relevant changes to each Playable Race page and the overall Jobs page (immediately), and retroactively adjusting references scattered about the Wiki (post testmerge). Wiki Team members will be tasked appropriately.
What should players be aware of when it comes to the changes your PR is implementing?
What general grouping does this PR fall under?
Playable Races, Command pages, Jobs
Changelog
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rscadd: New Non-Human species specific Command position enrollment!
rscadd: A new entry in the game_options.txt which allows quick adding and subtracting of allowed Species / Command position combinations (JOB_SPECIES_WHITELIST)!
wip: If this PR survives the testmerge period and goes to fullmerge, other modular additions will be looked into, such as Command envirosuits for CE/RD Plasmapeople! This was deferred to prevent tying up of valuable Spriter time and resources.
experimental: If you find anything working not as intended with this testmerge active, or you'd like to give your thoughts / feedback on the PR, please say something on the Yogstation Discord to me at Gavius#3817 or leave a comment here!
/:cl: