Batons are now Upgradeable - 1 Hit Stun - Minshield Firing Pin

[JamieD1]

Batons are now upgradeable, you can now upgrade batons with a module which is printable via research to make them 1 hit Stun.(Advanced Weapon Research)
They now come with firing pins also which can be swapped out to lock them to sec only.

This is my compromise after weeks of discussions with council, players, staff and developers. If you can think of a better one feel free to give me it, but I am honestly fed up with having to think about batons.

Just to add this is an OR upgrade, they can be 1 hit or Mind shielded apparently now.

Closes: #14061
Merges: #14322
🆑
rscadd: Batons are now upgradable to be 1 hit stun and can also be equipped with mindshield firing pins
/:cl:

[ToasterBiome]

where charge batong

[ynot01]

one click win is a cancer upon this codebase

[Hopekz]

Never even thought about sec firing pins for batons. Interesting

[ShadowDeath6]

Is there a way to just have it stun like it used to without shitting out stamina damage?

[JamieD1]

Is there a way to just have it stun like it used to without shitting out stamina damage?

Can do if that is a valid concern

[ShadowDeath6]

I haven't played in a bit so I'm not sure if stamina damage's movespeed penalty has been changed, but I'd prefer to not move at a crawl if sec doesn't manage to cuff me by the time the stun ends.

[stwordcitizen]

overpowered

[Bibby0110]

make it not apply to the crafted stunprod

[Hopekz]

overpowered

How so?

[SomeguyManperson]

no

[maxion12345]

why the fuck would I use a mindshield baton, i just carry my trusty booby-trapped Decoy Baton to blow up anyone who tries to attack me lmao

[Hopekz]

why the fuck would I use a mindshield baton, i just carry my trusty booby-trapped Decoy Baton to blow up anyone who tries to attack me lmao

Nice very specific anecdotal example that doesn't apply to most players

[Marmio64]

what about instead of upgrading a normal sized item into a one click win button you can instead make a new baton item from the fabricator (edit: or just make it an upgrade which does the same to an existing baton, just have to make sure the upgrade itself is also bulky) which is bulky (still fits in sec belts though) but has the instant stun capability. Could possibly alleviate frustration when antags get them and hide them in bags so you have no indication of whether or not they can instantly end you.

[ghost]

Lets do some math:

For example, changeling armblade(because changelings are recognised as strong antagonists so yeah:
How many attacks to win - 4
Seeing it makes all people validhunt and try to kill you - Yes
Needs more attacks to win if target is armored - Yes
Can be upgraded to allow it win in one hit - No

Funny stunbatton:
How many attacks to win - 2
Seeing it makes all people validhunt and try to kill you - Mostly no
Needs more attack to win if the target is armored - No, you litteraly can win a deathsquad officer by hitting them two times with a baton, and even his OP armor can't do anything about it
Can be upgraded to allow it win in one hit - with this PR - yes

Balance

When returning tasers back to the game?

[Marmio64]

Lets do some math:

For example, changeling armblade(because changelings are recognised as strong antagonists so yeah: How many attacks to win - 4 Seeing it makes all people validhunt and try to kill you - Yes Needs more attacks to win if target is armored - Yes Can be upgraded to allow it win in one hit - No

Funny stunbatton: How many attacks to win - 2 Seeing it makes all people validhunt and try to kill you - Mostly no Needs more attack to win if the target is armored - No, you litteraly can win a deathsquad officer by hitting them two times with a baton, and even his OP armor can't do anything about it Can be upgraded to allow it win in one hit - with this PR - yes

Balance

When returning tasers back to the game?

partly wrong and unfair assessment/analogy here.
1: Changelings are recognized as a strong antagonist, not their armblade ability, which is actually sometimes considered a noobtrap BECAUSE of it outing you as a ling.
2: stunbaton stam damage is reduced by energy armor. Though energy armor is often really low, deathsquad armor does halve it, which means it does take 3 stunbaton hits to down them.
3: stunbatons have a 1.2 second cooldown between stuns. Melee cooldown is 0.8 seconds. Theoretically, in the time it takes for you to baton someone twice they can melee you three times.
4: stunbatons need to be earned after killing an officer, unlike say an armblade, which you can right off the bat get as a ling. Sec officers also dont have the element of surprise most of the time, so they should have stronger gear to compensate.
edit: a fifth but rather small point. Batons need charge and have to be turned on before use unless you want to waste that charge.

not necessarily saying i agree with the PR or that batons are balanced but just pointing out some things.

[ghost]

Lets do some math:

For example, changeling armblade(because changelings are recognised as strong antagonists so yeah: How many attacks to win - 4 Seeing it makes all people validhunt and try to kill you - Yes Needs more attacks to win if target is armored - Yes Can be upgraded to allow it win in one hit - No

Funny stunbatton: How many attacks to win - 2 Seeing it makes all people validhunt and try to kill you - Mostly no Needs more attack to win if the target is armored - No, you litteraly can win a deathsquad officer by hitting them two times with a baton, and even his OP armor can't do anything about it Can be upgraded to allow it win in one hit - with this PR - yes

Balance

When returning tasers back to the game?

partly wrong and unfair assessment/analogy here.
1: Changelings are recognized as a strong antagonist, not their armblade ability, which is actually sometimes considered a noobtrap BECAUSE of it outing you as a ling.
2: stunbaton stam damage is reduced by energy armor. Though energy armor is often really low, deathsquad armor does halve it, which means it does take 3 stunbaton hits to down them.
3: stunbatons have a 1.2 second cooldown between stuns. Melee cooldown is 0.8 seconds. Theoretically, in the time it takes for you to baton someone twice they can melee you three times.
4: stunbatons need to be earned after killing an officer, unlike say an armblade, which you can right off the bat get as a ling. Sec officers also dont have the element of surprise most of the time, so they should have stronger gear to compensate.
edit: a fifth but rather small point. Batons need charge and have to be turned on before use unless you want to waste that charge.

not necessarily saying i agree with the PR or that batons are balanced but just pointing out some things.

This PR still sucks, it kills almost all stealth, non murderbone antagonists. Have fun waiting many rounds to roll an antagonist, and then getting your round ruined by a one lucky click of a stunbatton.

[SomeguyManperson]

one hit batons are always stupid and cannot be less stupid. Antags will use them instead of antag specific gear because they are more reliable and prevent people from finding out exactly what their other antag gear is, sec will always use them because it's brainless to just run at people and hit them once with no counterplay outside "dont get hit lmao", and it gives anyone who has one this stupid "i can take 5 guys at once" mentality where they WILL run into stupid fights because there is a small chance they can click on people faster than they get clicked on (especially if nobody else present has an instant win button)

Also doubled charge cost isn't anywhere near enough of a penalty to make it not worth taking every time it's available over literally anything else

[Hopekz]

just have to make sure the upgrade itself is also bulky) which is bulky (still fits in sec belts though)

I don't get this reasoning tbh.

If an item is "bulky" but has a convenient and common way to store it that everyone using it has (a security belt) then it is effectively not bulky because nothing has changed.

Unless you're trying to make it so antags can't put the stun batons in their bag unless they take a security belt? (not sure if belts can be hidden in backpacks or if it was finally fixed)

[ghost]

I suggest to make batons instanly dust people with antag datums, assistants and clowns

[maxion12345]

one hit batons return
security gets credits from harmbaton

Oh yeah, it's all coming together...

[Marmio64]

just have to make sure the upgrade itself is also bulky) which is bulky (still fits in sec belts though)

I don't get this reasoning tbh.

If an item is "bulky" but has a convenient and common way to store it that everyone using it has (a security belt) then it is effectively not bulky because nothing has changed.

Unless you're trying to make it so antags can't put the stun batons in their bag unless they take a security belt? (not sure if belts can be hidden in backpacks or if it was finally fixed)

i stated my reasoning in the same comment. " Could possibly alleviate frustration when antags get them and hide them in bags so you have no indication of whether or not they can instantly end you."
Though I did forget that sec belts are the one belts that aren't bulky so it is null. Though I suppose you could try to solve it by making it so the baton has to be equipped in the armor slot so it's guaranteed people will know if someone can one-shot them or not.

[AnCopper]

Why... why don't you people just use stamina batons?

[JamieD1]

Why... why don't you people just use stamina batons?

Hi, you obviously are not from around here.

[Hopekz]

Why... why don't you people just use stamina batons?

Hi, you obviously are not from around here.

He does have a point though.
Like what's stopping us from just not changing anything.

What are the actual problems that need fixing that had you "discuss for weeks" about?

[ghost]

Not changing anything is better then removing all the fun from playing as an antagonist by making funny batons(that are already the strongest weapon in the game after tasers and pulse rifles) be an insta win item

[Mqiib]

Batons don't need to be buffed. They also don't need to be nerfed. As they are they're a perfectly useful tool to take people down when combined with other security gear. You can't solo a group of people with a single baton like you used to, which is a GOOD CHANGE. if you buff it to be a one-shot it doesn't matter how many hoops you make people jump through to get the upgrade, they'll do it and then shit on any and every antag around the moment they can get within melee range.

Lets do some math. If someone runs at you dual-wielding energy swords, they need to hit you four times to take you down. With a 75% block chance from DUAL WIELDING LIGHTSABERS they will now have a whopping 42% chance (0.75^3, three blocks in a row) to win that fight even if they get the first hit in, all else held equal. That is, a trained agent dual wielding fucking lightsabers and swinging them wildly at some brainless security officer with an electric stick has higher odds of LOSING the fight than winning. This chance drops to 31% (0.75^4, four blocks in a row) if the officer gets the drop on you, or 0% if you don't have your swords already out and ready when the officer runs in to hit you with their funny win stick. If you get whacked while still typing, you also immediately lose. It's dumb as hell and not even remotely resembling fun and interactive gameplay.

[Marmio64]

honestly would like to see the mindshield 'firing' pin for stunbaton, might slightly discourage antags from always just finding a loot pinata to kill instead of actually using their own gear. Would like to see this atomized so we could try the firing pin without the 1 hit stun upgrade.

[maxion12345]

half want this merged so I can go on a validhunt streak with them

anyways hopek has a point, what's the issues with our current batong that would necessitate this change? I've had no issues clicking people twice to stun (or once if using instant win cylinders) so maybe just uhhhhh git gud?

[ghost]

Batons don't need to be buffed. They also don't need to be nerfed. As they are they're a perfectly useful tool to take people down when combined with other security gear. You can't solo a group of people with a single baton like you used to, which is a GOOD CHANGE. if you buff it to be a one-shot it doesn't matter how many hoops you make people jump through to get the upgrade, they'll do it and then shit on any and every antag around the moment they can get within melee range.

It actually needs to be nerfed. Yes, at this moment you can't run with them to a horde of people and win them. But you can run into a single guy and win him with two hits. But most common antags such as traitors, heretics, bloodbrothersare sole guys, so they will be get hardly fucked in most of cases.

[Hopekz]

Yes, at this moment you can't run with them to a horde of people and win them. But you can run into a single guy and win him with two hits. But most common antags such as traitors, heretics, bloodbrothersare sole guys, so they will be get hardly fucked in most of cases.

That's the point. The antags you listed are supposed to fear sec vs having a balanced fight with them.

Otherwise what's the point of having sec in the game if they're only temporary roadblocks until you get good enough to 1v1 them every time. Sec is designed to win these 1v1 fights to encourage antags not fighting sec 1v1

If you could win 1v1 in those situations it wouldn't even matter if sec existed in the area you'd just do your objective in front of a sec officer then kill the sec officer in a 1v1, effectively making them pointless in the first place.

[ghost]

That's the point. The antags you listed are supposed to fear sec vs having a balanced fight with them.

Otherwise what's the point of having sec in the game if they're only temporary roadblocks until you get good enough to 1v1 them every time. Sec is designed to win these 1v1 fights to encourage antags not fighting sec 1v1

If you could win 1v1 in those situations it wouldn't even matter if sec existed in the area you'd just do your objective in front of a sec officer then kill the sec officer in a 1v1, effectively making them pointless in the first place.

As an antagonist you are almost 1 vs everyone on the station, and sec mostly isn't getting in 1 vs 1 fights, and just swarms you with a group of funny armored guys that two-shot you with their battons. Because of this, making security that is supported by almost all the station, is containing many people that work in groups win 1 vs 1 fights is a questionable idea.

[stwordcitizen]

overpowered

How so?
stamina batons were fine, only people who were complaining about them were oldheads who needed their one hit uncounterable crutch baton. When this gets merged we'll be going right back to pre 2021 yogstation where the meta is to just steal a baton from the sec locker room and kill everyone with a one hit baton.

[JamieD1]

Some of these takes are awful, some actually have merit.

[Hopekz]

Some of these takes are awful, some actually have merit.

You don't even have a take.

Your take is "I spent weeks discussing this with __"

What is the problem that caused this PR to exist?
How does this PR fix whatever problem it is trying to address?

[JamieD1]

https://forums.yogstation.net/threads/vote-908-merge-https-github-com-yogstation13-yogstation-pull-14306-after-code-quality-is-done.25306/unread